Curse

Thizzle · Jun 18, 2008, 01:58 AM // 01:58

I've seen many people put the blame on Ursanway teams because the price of ecto is not the terribly high 11k or whatever they used to be. I think most of the are angry because their solo UW/FoW builds are pointless, but not totally because I think it's materials that aren't effected by loot scaling. I can see anger for a couple reasons... 1) the price of those rare items and materials 2) many people can't find a group that doesn't run Ursan for elite areas. I think the blame now is permanent shadowform farming.

Here's my point which I should really get to. I see the only point of having some high priced items like ambraces and such for trade by items that rarely appear like ultra rare miniatures or everlasting tonics. You don't need that crap though and many people aren't even interested in it. Now to me I always had the "whoa!" for Obsidian armor and I think people are more interested in that than the other rare things you could get with ectoplasm or shards.

Please, tell me what's bothering or giving you a smile about the Guild Wars economy? I still never had the patience to save up all the ectoplasm and shards you need for Obsidian armor. I imagine I would have only did it if the prices were totally deflated.

super strokey · Jun 18, 2008, 02:04 AM // 02:04

I had a guy telling me to sell my ecto for more than what the trade was selling it for the other day lol. I was like "but then no one will buy it" and he was like they will cause it will go up... i dont think he understands the way supply and demand works lol

MMSDome · Jun 18, 2008, 02:06 AM // 02:06

You say people dont need shit like the rare tonics but that isnt the point. Who the hell needs a Ferrari? People that own ferrari's dont need it they have it because they can, they are rich so they spend there money. Some things in real life apply to GW as well. If you have the money why not flaunt it?

Thizzle · Jun 18, 2008, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by super strokey

I had a guy telling me to sell my ecto for more than what the trade was selling it for the other day lol. I was like "but then no one will buy it" and he was like they will cause it will go up... i dont think he understands the way supply and demand works lol

Always sell it for more than the trader is willing to buy and less than it is to buy from the trader, that's the easiest way to do it.

Quote:

You say people dont need shit like the rare tonics but that isnt the point. Who the hell needs a Ferrari? People that own ferrari's dont need it they have it because they can, they are rich so they spend there money. Some things in real life apply to GW as well. If you have the money why not flaunt it?

That's understandable. In real life though the average person doesn't complain they can't afford a Ferrari because they don't have the money. They simply accept and move on, usually. Now in Guild Wars people are complaining because a certain material is dropping in price, but the only thing you need those for is a medium to make high priced trades like rare miniatures, otherwise you got everything you need.

HawkofStorms · Jun 18, 2008, 02:23 AM // 02:23

It's not that the unit value of ectos is going down that is the problem.

It is that the value of EVERYTHING is going down. You'll be lucky to sell a rare, perfect weapon for over 5k now a days. Nobody can sell anything. The poor are going to remain that way and the gap between the mega rich and the poor widens because there is no way to make up that gap.

Thizzle · Jun 18, 2008, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

It's not that the unit value of ectos is going down that is the problem.

It is that the value of EVERYTHING is going down. You'll be lucky to sell a rare, perfect weapon for over 5k now a days. Nobody can sell anything. The poor are going to remain that way and the gap between the mega rich and the poor widens because there is no way to make up that gap.

I'm glad someone said this. The most expensive thing that many people want is armor and weapons, correct? Now if Obsidian armor is 70k like all the other armor and rare material is a really low price then that sounds like my cup of tea because I don't see a point in anything else that you really need to spend money on. There's plenty of weapons that people think are rare just because of the price which is actually why it's rare, but to me a weapon was rare because of what it looked like. I never cared about having a perfect caster elemental sword, you know why? I didn't like the skin, I much rather have Exuro's Will or cheap perfect green items just because I liked the skin. Exuro's Will is one of my favorite staffs because it's perfect, green, and cheap. The rate that an item drops has never been a rare or not reason I want to use a weapon.

Kusandaa · Jun 18, 2008, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Le's face it, a lot of players value their epeens... don't ask me why. My first FoW set was ~1.2mil (ectos at 8.5k-9k, shards at 2-3k), the last complete one I bought cost me... close to nothing 'cause I farmed the 105 ectos, ~130k to buy shards... let's put an average of 220k. And I had leftover cash.

Do I care if my first set is devaluated? Nah. I still like it. My mini Naga cost me 227e. 2 weeks after they were back at the price I was originally offered; 180e. Annoying yes, but not the end of the world.

I remember when I couldn't afford a +30hp sword mod. 20k+. Man... that was hard to come buy 20k back then if you were a casual player. 60k for a sup vigor. 90k+ for sup absorption. You probably didn't need them, but it was nice to have them... just to be a bit more effective. Now they're relatively easy to get - 5k for a +30hp sword mod.

Everyone can have them now. But wait. That's baed? Same with weapon skins? OH WOW. Sorry, I never realized how tormented items were supposed to stay leet and only for a handful of the population. I'm dead sure some people are deathly afraid of losing some value of the items 'cause they bought them because they were expensive and 1337.

Sjeng · Jun 18, 2008, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Yeah, I agree. Who the hell cares anymore if they aren't the only ones with leet stuff in a 3 year old dying game anyway? I say: let everyone have the chance to buy cool stuff if they want to. The people who had tose items first have had their fun. Now let others have theirs.

Shayne Hawke · Jun 18, 2008, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Until I get my two remaining money titles, I'll be jealous of any person that's making money faster than me. The changes in the price of ectos tells me that I'm pretty far behind.

Past that, I don't much care. I already have a sweet mini, and there's no point in getting more.

Yawgmoth · Jun 18, 2008, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sjeng

Yeah, I agree. Who the hell cares anymore if they aren't the only ones with leet stuff in a 3 year old dying game anyway? I say: let everyone have the chance to buy cool stuff if they want to. The people who had tose items first have had their fun. Now let others have theirs.

So you say it's good to completely crapify the game because it's old. To throw the values of things that mattered out of the window, to let
I say NO. There are still people that care about the game (like me) and want to continue playing a QUALITY game.
All these updates like this are only hurting the game, making it more attractive for the "I want more easy everything" masses, for a short time, but then leaving the game in ruins.

This kind of policy greatly affects Anets credibility, and my trust that they will try to maintain the quaility of their next game, GW2.

I mean, if something is designed as elite content or a prestigeous reward it should remain that way forever. Making things easier and easier, dumber and dumber just because the masses want to have everything with minimal effort, just to please them, is WRONG WAY. Killing the game just to have a little fun for a while is just wrong.

FengShuiDove · Jun 18, 2008, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

things that mattered

Um, online game. Your "things that matter" are tiny bits of electronic coding with such a fragile existence as to be smeared out of said existence without a moment's notice.

You said that if something is elite and prestigious it should stay that way forever. That's totally impossible. Just as Domain of Anguish used to be ridiculously elite, now all you have to do is get Norn points and toss on Ursan to get a PUG to finish the thing. The nature of the game is that old "elite" things become more commonplace and give way to newer "elite" items. It's why a Voltaic Spear is worth more than an Armbrace.

If games didn't have this nature, there would be no purpose in progression. Once you beat DoA, for example, you've done everything and might as well quit. Instead, like in real life, once you get ahead, you have to stay on the cutting edge in order to maintain that status. It's easier to maintain since instead of having to beat DoA and Slaver's all you have to do is Slaver's, for example. Just as in real life, if you decide not to partake of the "newest thing," you won't be as extraordinary as the guy who goes on.

And that's my opinion. By continually introducing new rare and pricy items into the game, ANet has created a realistic system of requiring real in-game advancement and participation to stay at the forefront of eliteness or veteran-ness. In my opinion, the PvE buffs/reverts are ANet's way of saying, "Here, before GW2 comes out, we'll give you a chance to get your rare armors and buy some nice things to enjoy before the playing field is leveled." After all, Shadow Form didn't need a buff. Perma was an effective way to farm everything that it now farms en masse. I did Planes runs before the buff just as well. ANet knew that -- they had to hit 95% of the community in the face with it for anyone to catch on though.

If you're so concerned about your ectos or Armbraces depreciating, you have got to be an idiot. In a market such as this where there are unlimited amounts of the materials needed for these items, the more of the population that gets to UW/DoA, the less value each unit will have. So if your bank is taking a hit and you're QQing about it, I guess you just learned a valuable lesson about inflation over time. Stuff it, or better yet liquidate and stuff your mouth still, and don't invest in those items when GW2 comes out. Lesson learned.

Yawgmoth · Jun 18, 2008, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Um, quality of an online game. Maintaining the quality over time. It matters for me. Ecto price drop isn't affecting me personally (I got rid of almost all my ecto stacks 3 weeks ago, at good prices, as I knew what was going to happen) but is affecting the overall quality of the game I play.

It clearly shows how careless are the devs - buffing an already overpowered skill without thinking of consequences, that's not reasonable. I wouldn't believe that they did this deliberately, with the intention of giving everyone a quick and easy way for solo farming 95%+ of the game using just one build, making the single one 'elite' armor set in game easily accessible for the masses and finally removing a currency established for years from use (this will happen if nothing changes).

Kusandaa · Jun 18, 2008, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

I wouldn't believe that they did this deliberately, with the intention of giving everyone a quick and easy way for solo farming 95%+ of the game using just one build, making the single one 'elite' armor set in game easily accessible for the masses

You say that like it's a bad thing. It's like saying no one else but the rich should have pretty clothes.

I remember working my butt off for my first FoW armor set. It didn't bother me. It still doesn't bother me that people can get it in a couple days now. WHY would it bother me? So I remain leet?

Since when do people play so that other people will marvel at their achievements? Why not playing or buying stuff because you LIKE it, instead of 'cause someone else thinks it's leet? I don't get this. And I see a lot happen.

(Note that I'm not talking to anyone in particular here)

Thizzle · Jun 18, 2008, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kusandaa

You say that like it's a bad thing. It's like saying no one else but the rich should have pretty clothes.

I remember working my butt off for my first FoW armor set. It didn't bother me. It still doesn't bother me that people can get it in a couple days now. WHY would it bother me? So I remain leet?

Since when do people play so that other people will marvel at their achievements? Why not playing or buying stuff because you LIKE it, instead of 'cause someone else thinks it's leet? I don't get this. And I see a lot happen.

(Note that I'm not talking to anyone in particular here)

I totally agree. I do the missions, get the armor, and use the weapons I like. I say if you can finish a campaign you deserve to get elite armor and weapons in a reasonable amount of time and for a reasonable price. The thing is Obsidian is core and is accessible mid-game, but it's clearly more expensive right now than most people can compensate with right now.

Yawgmoth · Jun 18, 2008, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Omg... are you just pretending or are really that ...

Ofcourse it's BAD. geeez...

You would prefer all the armors in game to have the same low cost? Or maybe a creation panel with all armors to choose from popping up after leaving pre Ascalon so everyone can choose a nice looking armor and get it for free?

People who think like that are what continuously ruins the game for years, making it worse and worse.

Kusandaa · Jun 18, 2008, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

Omg... are you just pretending or are really that ...

Ofcourse it's BAD. geeez...

You would prefer all the armors in game to have the same low cost? Or maybe a creation panel with all armors to choose from popping up after leaving pre Ascalon so everyone can choose a nice looking armor and get it for free?

People who think like that are what continuously ruins the game for years, making it worse and worse.

I didn't say I wanted all the armors to have the same low cost. AFAIK FoW armor is the most expensive armor to buy still. FoW armor doesn't give me extra bonuses or anything, it's just more costly because of its looks. LOOKS! That's what this armor is all about.

And this is where tastes come; someone will say that they won't pay so much cash for such a piece of ****, while others will farm for days, months to get it. And some players, despite how much they love it, will not get a hold of it - because they're casual players, because they don't understand the game mechanics, because they're lazy...

This whole thing reminds me of teenage girls fighting 'cause one's wearing the same dress as another, and the 2nd one has a bit less cash.

tyrant rex · Jun 18, 2008, 05:15 PM // 17:15

I think alot of people that complain about things like ectos prices going down or there "leet items" going down are stuck in a mode of thinking reserved for other games like wow or d2. Were items actually matter , in gw a max item is a max item and a max wepon is a max wepon no matter what skin it has. A maxed hand axe has the same use a torm axe because there stats are exactly the same the only difference is apperance which dosent affect game play at all .
Like in d2 I can see a reason for people with .08 arkines valor getting pissed off once tons of duped once flood the market and new kid with a credit card gets them. Because that item actually offered a gameplay advantage that this new kid that started d2 at the 1.10 patch shouldnt have. But in guild wars items have no affect you can easily get maxed stat items. so i dont see what the big deal is. The people that think obsi armor or w/e should be reserved for those who spent over a mil to get it during prohecies need to get off there cross and use the wood to build a bridge and get over it.

Targren · Jun 18, 2008, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

It's not that the unit value of ectos is going down that is the problem.

It is that the value of EVERYTHING is going down. You'll be lucky to sell a rare, perfect weapon for over 5k now a days. Nobody can sell anything. The poor are going to remain that way and the gap between the mega rich and the poor widens because there is no way to make up that gap.

I don't think that ectos have much to do with that. Why should ectos have any effect on trades under 100k? If the issue is that so many people farming brings more money in than the market can bear, then prices should be going UP with inflation...

Please elaborate on your reasoning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

You would prefer all the armors in game to have the same low cost? Or maybe a creation panel with all armors to choose from popping up after leaving pre Ascalon so everyone can choose a nice looking armor and get it for free?

People who think like that are what continuously ruins the game for years, making it worse and worse.

Hell yes, I'd prefer that. If I didn't have to grind for gold to buy my Ranger's elite armor because I like how it looks, or buy 3 different chest armors for my assassin... I've sold more than enough ectos to have gotten my FoW armor already. I just didn't bother because I think it looks like crap (I am not alone in this).

They SHOULD just pay for the stats and have the skins be choosable. That only "ruins" the game if your entire point to playing isn't playing, but getting your rocks off by feeling like you're "better" than some other collection of polygons running around. Good players are "leet" and should prove it by running around in ugly armor just to impress other, equally ignorant, players?

Sorry, but the rest of you guys just ain't that important. I'll stick with what looks good to me. Now I've got to get me a brotherhood armor for my heroes...

savage vapor 33 · Jun 18, 2008, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

It's not that the unit value of ectos is going down that is the problem.

It is that the value of EVERYTHING is going down. You'll be lucky to sell a rare, perfect weapon for over 5k now a days. Nobody can sell anything. The poor are going to remain that way and the gap between the mega rich and the poor widens because there is no way to make up that gap.

Agree...

Been trying to sell a pretty nice axe for about 3 weeks so far that used to sell for 80k. Now it only sells for maybe 10-20.

any takers?! pm me

haha

Skye Marin · Jun 18, 2008, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Some of the ultra-rich have surpassed the 1 million limit of the storage box, and decided to invest in ectos as part of their currency. This comes with the risk that the price of ectos could drop over time, as it has in the past. Naturally, folks don't want their investments to diminish. They'll call for nerfs against what they think is causing it. What they should realize is that, not only is the value of the ecto decreasing in terms of gold, but the value of gold is increasing itself. You can buy more better stuff with 30k today than you could 3 years ago.

If you have 100 ecto, and it drops from 5k to 4.5k on the average market, you could say that you've lost 50k, but then again, take your 1million in storage and convert it to ecto, in one case you'd get 200 ecto, and the other you'd get 222 ecto. So what happened? Did you really lose 50k, or did you profit 22 ecto? The answer is both. If you happen to be in this situation, you actually "gained" 22 ecto at the "cost" of 50k (which works out to roughly 2.3k each). If you have more ecto on you, your cost will rise, and if you have less gold, your "gain" will drop.This means it's almost always best to be carrying gold if your commodity for choice is predicted to drop in price. Also, in this specific case, you break even if you're holding onto about 1kk+200e. You lose money if you're holding onto more ecto, and actually profit in ectos if you're holding onto less.

Also, holding onto a fluctuating trading commodity always carries a risk. Consider it a cost of retaining mass wealth and not doing anything with it. If you want a very stable resource, join a guild that is holding a town and invest in Lockpicks. Buy for 1,200, and sell for that. Zaishen Keys are also an option, but I wouldn't trust those too far.